Curse

Profius Odin · Jun 08, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Ehh, don't throw rocks at me just yet

.

I've read on forums that some people can get about 5-10 sigils a day and sell it to traders for like 70K-75K. That's a cool way to make money if you are good at PvP in Hall of Heroes. But that doesn't concern me. What concerns me is -

1. If sigils can be sold to NPC merchants for such a high price this is a HUUUGE loophole in the game. THere will be just tons of money in game soon, and players will start complain and whine about losing interest.

2. There was a message out from GW devs couple weeks ago that they gonna put more sigils in game, which will make them cheaper. So if there is so many sigils already in the game why vendor price is still so high?

Amnisac · Jun 08, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Sigil prices are dropping like a rock.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 08, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

good point. And if the vendor price (sell and buy) were lowered it would reduce the amount being sold

It was mentioned before, but it would be good if there were other things that PvP could fight for, like guild hall additions, new maps, etc. That way it wouldn't be about collecting sigils and building up plat.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 08, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnisac

Sigil prices are dropping like a rock.

Were dropping like a rock. Now they are at a steady 75-80k...

Profius Odin · Jun 08, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

That's what I am saying. Some people right now have hundreds of plats on them and imagine what is it gonna do for any new game content that will be for sale.

Sigil thing just makes everything wrong. The whole sigil thing, the way you acquire it - is wrong IMHO. It's one of the ways, but heck, think about it for a second. There are people, kids for instance, or people who spend at the computer all their time except brakes for bathroom. They sit in the Hall of Heroes all day long, and finish the day with 5-10 sigils. It's 350-700 plats. There is simply nothing yet in game to spend that money on. UNLESS all this is exaggurated. and what I've heard is not true.

In my opinion, sigils should be aquired through the special quest, like a raid, and only ONCE/PER GUILD. I have no idea why devs made this spoiler.

So it's either they do something now about this sigil problem, OR they will have deal with unpleasant consequences later on. And trust me, this can be GW's particular problem that might destroy it as a game.

Elythor · Jun 08, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

The sigil "problem" has been beaten to death many times already.

The sigil system is fine as they are. The whole point of sigils is to award skillful (and sometimes lucky) players. And the fact that sigils cost so much is because of the simple economics....high demand, small supply = high price. There is nothing wrong with that.

If your guild wants a sigil but don't have enough skill? Get everyone in your guild to donate some money and you can easily buy a sigil.

Besides, for those people who are holding the hall for a long time, they are guilds who do lots of GvG. So they are usually using Tombs as a way to test out their builds/strategy/training. They are most likely hardcore PvPer who probably don't need the cash anyway...so making another 100k is no difference to them. The amount of money they have won't really make it into the economy anyway...since they won't be actively buying so much stuff.

cc.pyro · Jun 08, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

The sigil problem won't destroy the game. However had they not allowed you to store an almost unlimited amount of gold in your storage Sigil prices would have to go down because you are only allowed to carry 100kgold. And even if that was spread out among 4 chars you can only hold 400k. If a person with a sigil wants to sell it and they already have 50k on them, they have to sell it for 50k or keep it. I think the money storage is a major cause of the Sigil problem. The more money you can hold, them more things will be sold for.

This actually applies to the high prices of everything in the game...

kleps · Jun 08, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

i wonder what would happen if players were only allowed to carry 1 sigil in their inventory at all times...

Rhunex · Jun 08, 2005, 10:30 PM // 22:30

then people would stop playing the game the semi honest way by earning/selling sigils and just buy everything they want off of ebay...

Profius Odin · Jun 09, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Do you think it would hurt to have only one sigil per guild? Why sigil is economy driving item? Look, everything is focused around the sigil. I think it would be fair - if someone from the guild won the sigil once, and after guild got a hall, that's it, that guild trigger is up and no more sigils for it. How would it hurt? I can tell you how - there is nothing else to do. Sigil is the only thing that makes it worth to fight in the Hall, unless you are hardcore PvPer. You win sigils - you sell them, you are rich. Set of best armor - 6K. Will take maybe couple few days to gather reasources or buy them from other players. You get yourself best equipment in a matter of days, best rares and then you move on to next online game.
They shouldn't at least make it possible to sell sigils to trader for so much money. Unless I am wrong and sigils can be sold only between players. If I am right, I already know what's gonna happen. It's already happening, there is lots of people who ascended multiple characters (no life, figures) and brakes between coming back to play GW becoming longer and longer for them. Eventually those people will be lost for GW. And this is a problem. If you don't think so it means you don't really care, probably you will be one of the first who will switch to DDO.

It's just simply wrong to have a sigil - economy driving item. The only thing saves GW right now - cool game, many players and MANY guilds. Everybody needs sigil. Sigil is a main goal for guilds - they either buy it or win in. After they get a hall, they start making money by getting more sigils and collecting money they get from a trader by selling sigils. When they get a lot of money they start getting bored, because sigil is not that important anymore. And there is no money sinks for them, since they already have sigil. That's it, final destination.

You don't have to listen to me. But I start seeing a crack in GW, which is inappropriately implemented sigil feature. It won't hold players for very long. My opinion, and partially a warning...

Rhunex · Jun 09, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Profius Odin

Do you think it would hurt to have only one sigil per guild? Why sigil is economy driving item? Look, everything is focused around the sigil. I think it would be fair - if someone from the guild won the sigil once, and after guild got a hall, that's it, that guild trigger is up and no more sigils for it. How would it hurt? I can tell you how - there is nothing else to do. Sigil is the only thing that makes it worth to fight in the Hall, unless you are hardcore PvPer. You win sigils - you sell them, you are rich. Set of best armor - 6K. Will take maybe couple few days to gather reasources or buy them from other players. You get yourself best equipment in a matter of days, best rares and then you move on to next online game.
They shouldn't at least make it possible to sell sigils to trader for so much money. Unless I am wrong and sigils can be sold only between players. If I am right, I already know what's gonna happen. It's already happening, there is lots of people who ascended multiple characters (no life, figures) and brakes between coming back to play GW becoming longer and longer for them. Eventually those people will be lost for GW. And this is a problem. If you don't think so it means you don't really care, probably you will be one of the first who will switch to DDO.

It's just simply wrong to have a sigil - economy driving item. The only thing saves GW right now - cool game, many players and MANY guilds. Everybody needs sigil. Sigil is a main goal for guilds - they either buy it or win in. After they get a hall, they start making money by getting more sigils and collecting money they get from a trader by selling sigils. When they get a lot of money they start getting bored, because sigil is not that important anymore. And there is no money sinks for them, since they already have sigil. That's it, final destination.

You don't have to listen to me. But I start seeing a crack in GW, which is inappropriately implemented sigil feature. It won't hold players for very long. My opinion, and partially a warning...

Right off the bat you make a loophole. If people couldn't get a sigil if their guild had a guild hall, a lot of the PvP guilds would rather not have a Guild Hall, get hundreds of sigils, still be rich as heck, and later get a guild hall when they can roll around in their own gold for hours without touching a piece of gold twice.

If you think that the sigil economy is so horrible, you need to rethink it. It's simple, and it's a way to make sure that everyone doesn't go off, make their own 1 man guild with a guild hall, rolling around on the floor saying to themselves "They said it couldn't be done...BUT I DID IT ANYWAYS AND I SHOWED THEM HA HA HA HA...o I didn't mean to scare you Guild Hall, I'll try to not surprise you like that in our future

"

if sigils were cheap, everyone would make their own guild, buy sigils for their own hall, and except in PvP you would never see the same guild twice in town.

If you think that this is going to be the undoing of a huge community, then I'm sure you've never seen a community fight back before. If the Guild Wars community is anything like the T:V community, then ANet would not hear the last of it until they changed the sigil economy. But people aren't going to flock away just because they didn't like the fact they might have to work hard at unlocking a feature to the game. If you really want a sigil, and really hate the price, get a guild of 20 people, each chip in 5k gold. It's not much, and you get 100k gold all together, enough to buy a sigil at any price. Or, you can make a guild of 10,000 people and everyone offers 10 gold...theres your sigil for the price of 10 gold. This isn't going to end Guild Wars, trust me. It would have to be something much bigger than a sigil to end a video game.

Profius Odin · Jun 09, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

All I say - cut off selling sigil to NPC for this humangous price and things will change. For now people playing just to make money on selling a sigil. It's like a huge spoiler that dev's "can not" see. Selling sigil to NPCs for such a high price will add a lot of money to GW which will destroy "economy" in a matter of weeks.

Don't you understand - there is no money sink in GW. If there is a source to get a lot of money, there should be a source to get money out of the game. For example you make hundreds of plats on selling sigils to vendor but you have to spend a lot to buy some special guild hall feature. Those features are not in game yet. Nothing is in the game that could cost hundreds of plats. And that's why It's serious.

Another example for you. You keep making this humangous amount of money, you are so rich that it's not even funny anymore. And you don't know what to do with the money. You start losing interest, because there is nothing that would drive your interest. You are like a god in GW, you can buy anything that is in the game already or even that is not implemented yet. Because you have hundreds of "money bags" lying in your background. This will kill interest.

Imagine, you live your life, you go to work to make money, because you have to - ,1.pay the bills, 2. buy your wife presents and diamond rings, 3. safe for vacation, 4. buy a new car, 5. new house...etc. Imagine if you get it all in a matter of a few weeks. Is there a point for your living after that? Maybe, if you just relax every day, play golf, get fat and lazy and eventually you die because there is nothing left to do in your life that would make you to move.

I might be exaggurating. But heck, I predicted same fate for EQ2, so promising game in the beginning, and now servers are mostly empty.

Now I see what's gonna happen in a couple monthes with GW, unless they invent some money sink. Because money getting in the game, but not getting out. There is no money sink in GW.

Aug · Jun 09, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

There is no money being added. That is a fallacy. The price of sigils fluctuates based on supply and demand, at the trader. If 10 sigils are purchased from the trader, the trader will pay more for additional sigils. If 10 sigils are sold to the trader, then sigil prices will drop. And there's a markup/down fee for using the sigil trader (there's a difference between the value to sell and buy a sigil at the exact same time).

So basically, every Sigil Trader transaction actually removes money from the economy, not adds to it. A PvP guild gets a Sigil, and sells it to the trader. Now there is a Sigil available for purchase. The Sigil is purchased for MORE money than what they Trader paid out. So you have a net decrease in total gold in the game world.

In 6-9 months from now, supply will outstrip demand, and the sigil prices will really plummet. You can already see a pretty big difference from sigil prices at 9 AM EST and 11 PM EST. On the order of ~20-30k difference.